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Spero keeps several coops of champion pigeons on the roof, and he and Kufeld have met there virtually every day since the aging mobster was released from prison two years ago. Problem is, the roof is a block away from Spero's old social club, a mob hangout he was ordered to stay away from as a condition of his federal parole.

And assistant U.S. attorney Jim Walden contends that Spero uses his pigeon flying buddies, like Kufeld, to carry orders and messages to mobsters at the club. As such, Spero is a danger to the community and should be held without bail as he awaits trial for ordering the 1993 murder of drug dealer named Paul (Paulie Brass) Gulino.

Spero's lawyer, Gerald Shargel, (who managed to get John A. (Junior) Gotti out of jail last fall with a gigantic bail agreement) said his client is just an old man pursuing a hobby and hopes to spring him this week with a similar whopping $3.5 million bail package.

Walden called Kufeld as a witness at a recent detention hearing. Deciphering his testimony about how often he went to the club, about exactly what is meant by "going there," about whom he knows, and exactly what is meant by knowing someone, would require a blue-ribbon panel of semanticists, English teachers and lexicographers.

Under questioning by Shargel, Kufeld testified that he "went there only on very few occasions....I went there, in and out, said hello and left."

Moments later, when Walden reminded him that a few minutes earlier he had testified that he had been there "hundreds of times," Kufeld quickly explained.

"You're talking about -- we're talking about two different things," he said. "I think we should define what I consider going in and out. If I walk in and say how's somebody feeling and walk out, that's time that I'm there but I don't consider it being there."

Regardless of how many times he went there, but didn't consider being there, Kufeld knew Spero never went there after his release from prison in 1997, when he was prohibited from visiting the club and associating with the many known gangsters who frequented it. And Kufeld, a pigeon

At first, Kufeld seemed to be unsure which club Walden was asking about, but quickly corrected himself, noting that what he was referring to "is not a  social club. It's a pet shop."
Q. Well, a moment ago I asked you how many social clubs and you said two.
A. Well, I misunderstood the question.
Q. The pet shop you're referring to is owned by Sal Spero, Mr. Spero's brother, right?
A. Yes.
Q And when you referred to that as a social club a moment ago, that wasn't a mistake, was it?
A. Oh, absolutely, it was.
Q. That's in fact, a meeting place for members and associates of the Bonannos.
A. That's a meeting place for pigeon flyers.
Q. What pigeon flyers meet at the pet shop that you referred to as a social club?
A. Well, there's Sally; there's Billy; there's Victor; there's Victor's son Frank, there's Charlie.
Q. Do you have last names for us?
A. Not really.
Q. You don't know the last names of any of these people?
A. No.
Q. Well, do you know anyone's last name?
A. I think I just heard one, Billy something or other.

Kufeld did know the last names of several reputed Bonanno mobsters, including Boss Joseph Massino, (left)  underboss Salvatore Vitale, (right) capos  Anthony (T.G) Graziano and Frank Lino, and two of Spero's codefendants, soldiers Joseph Benanti and Fabritzio DeFrancisci.

Q. What about a man named Petey Boxcars?
A. I've seen him.
Q. Where?
A. Walking on the avenue.
Q. Had you seen him in the social club?
A. I seen him outside, never inside.
Q. And who was he talking to outside the social club?
A. Everybody.
Q. Who's his father?
A. His father was Patty Boxcars.
Q. And he's deceased, correct?
A. Yes.

Kufeld explained that the pet shop replaced another pet shop that had been across the street from the Big Apple Car Service.
Q. And how long were you going to that pet shop?
A. For as long as it's been there.
Q. How long was that?
A. I really can't tell you.
Q. Approximately how long?
A. I can't approximate.

A few minutes later, Walden pressed for the names of the pigeon people again,  saying he was going to write them down.
A. There's Charlie, there's Billy; there's Victor; there's Frankie; there's Skippy and various other people that fly pigeons.
Q. How long have you known Charlie.
A. Two, three years.
Q. Billy?
A. Two three years.
Q. Victor?
A. For about 20.
Q. What's Victor's last name.
A. I can't tell you. I don't know his last name.
Q. What is Frank's name.
A. Frank is Victor's son. I don't know their last name.
Q. Understood. What's Skippy's real first name?
A. Really don't know him by anything other than Skippy.
Q. And this is a complete list of people that you know.
A. No. There are various other people that go there that I don't know.

When Kufeld said he might have met DeFrancisci "three times," Walden wondered why he seemed so certain of that number.
A. Because I really don't know him but I met him at a funeral twice.
Q. Whose funeral did you meet him at?
A. The gentleman's name is Flip. I don't know his full name.
Q. I'm sorry, his name was what?
A. Flip.
Q. F-L-I-P?
A. Yeah. He was 90 something years old, And other than that, I might have seen him but I never really met him.

Another column will be coming your way Thursday, June 24, at high noon.

From then on, until further notice, This Week In Gang Land will come to you live and fresh on Thursdays.